Emily Merrell  00:00

Hey, my name is Emily Merrell. I’m a taco loving people connector, and I’m obsessed with playing the name game and all things networking. I’m the founder of second degree society, a female focused networking community, as well as a business coach for female business owners, passionate about bringing their business to the next level with the help of events, community and connections. I crave deep conversations and am continuously curious to see what makes people tick, and I’m invested in uncovering their stories with some life lessons along the way. This podcast is aimed to inspire and educate as you tackle your busy day. So join the conversation and tune in for the second degree podcast. I’m your host, Emily Merrell, and today I am so happy and so excited to have my friend who I think is now my, like, favorite person at matches. I don’t know. I can’t see that. I can’t see that, kid, you’re like, a campaign. Yeah. Elizabeth. Michelle, she is a financial Coast based in LA So Elizabeth, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Emily. I’m

 

Elizabeth Michelle  01:11

so excited to be here. And yeah, like Emily said, I love seeing her in matches. We always have really amazing talks.

 

Emily Merrell  01:18

We really do. We have a kind of like, like, quickie talks every single

 

Elizabeth Michelle  01:23

week, yeah, but always something very interesting, yeah,

 

Emily Merrell  01:27

yeah. We’re good conversationalists together. I have to say, I love, I love our meet cute story. And I don’t know if you really even understand our meet cute story, Elizabeth, so I’m going to share my point of view, and I’d love to hear yours. Okay, so I’ve been actually paying attention to social media recently, which is for good or for bad. And I saw that Elizabeth had followed the second degree society account, and I invited her to join an event as my guest. And I think, I think this was the time when we were doing an in real life event, yes, and it was at a member’s house, and she was like, Oh, I don’t know if I feel comfortable going to a stranger’s house. And I loved that, because I totally have, like, forgotten stranger danger, because my whole business now is networking, and all I do is just talk to strangers. And so gave me pause, but she then came to a virtual event and became a member, and has now been to many strangers houses since. So that’s my side of the story. Yes, I

 

Elizabeth Michelle  02:36

remember that fondly, too, and I’m, you know, I was raised by a military father who always instilled a lot of caution in me about everything. So I was like, I reached out to me. I was like, this is at some girl’s house I’ve never met. Like, is this safe? And so I was like, Yeah, I’m not gonna go, because I don’t know any of these people. But yeah, we ended up, I ended up joining a virtual event, and I think my match didn’t attend that one, and so I ended up getting matched with you, Emily, and had a great conversation, and I was like, Oh, my God, I love her. And then I joined right after the event, and it’s been great ever since.

 

Emily Merrell  03:18

That’s my favorite kind of interaction to where it like, comes from, kind of wary, and you’re like, testing it out, and then that, like, hell yes moment where the person signs up on the spot. And those are my favorite, like most engaged members too. I feel like they really take advantage of the programming. And like being on the podcast and hosting an event that we have coming up for you in a few weeks. Like it’s it’s really cool to see someone plug in. But anyways, that’s my meet cute. How did you get How did you find or stumble upon us?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  03:53

So one of the goals I set for myself this year was to do more networking, both for like, a personal side and for my business, because, like, I came from a consulting background, and a lot of my friends, and close friends are scattered all over the states. I even have some friends internationally. And I was like, I don’t really have a community of friends here. And then I also had a goal to grow my business. I was like, I’m just gonna like network like crazy and like, try to make friends and do business network and everything anyway. So I think I Google searched and found SPS that way. Yeah, I have a huge list of networking groups that I’ve actually shared with other like women that I’ve met, because they’re also, like, going through a similar like, trying to figure out, like, what matches with them. So I share SDS with everybody, because I love it.

 

Emily Merrell  04:48

I love that, but I love, I love when I think what you just said, too about this goal of like, setting a goal for yourself and then actually taking action where so so many people can ruminate. On that, that desire to, like, grow their personal network, or their their business network, and then not do anything and just sit behind their desk and like hope for a LinkedIn request to come through. So kudos team for taking action. Thanks.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  05:15

It was scary to my little introvert heart.

 

Emily Merrell  05:19

I feel like there’s something in my tagline that I’ve been struggling with and like, how do I, how do I say it nicely? Like, introverts will be safe here, or like you’re you’ll feel seen safe and like, welcomed in a non scary. Like, I don’t think we suck the energy of introverts out the way that they think with networking.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  05:39

Yeah, you know what? I don’t know that I have an answer for you. Because I think the biggest struggle for somebody that’s an introvert is just like taking that step anyways, because it’s very easy to like be comfortable in your bubble and just kind of stay there. So I think it’s more like pushing yourself to get out of your comfort zone, and then you will find your people that are fully accepting of who you are. And, you know, you find those people that understand that, like you need your me time, and you’re also can be great in a small group. Yeah? So,

 

Emily Merrell  06:17

yeah, I think people that’s, that’s like, a misconception people have with me. They’re like, Oh, you must be around people all day and like that must fill you up all day being with someone. And I’m like, I love being alone. Like I love I love being on but I love being like, in deep focus work or being with me, myself and I as

 

Elizabeth Michelle  06:38

well. Yeah, do you like going on me dates? I love me dates.

 

Emily Merrell  06:43

I like it, and I need to get better at it, too. So can you give me an example of, like, a me date you go on

 

Elizabeth Michelle  06:49

so, like, I will go and take myself out to lunch, or I’ll go for a walk and grab a coffee and go sit outside and drink the coffee on my own sometimes I’ll go somewhere and, like, take a book and grab a bite to eat, or it’s usually involves food. I see I see them. Yeah, I’ve taken myself out to the movies before. I haven’t done that in a long time, but I used to do that quite often. Um, yeah. I just feel like, for me, if there’s something I’m interested in doing, like I enjoy my own company. So,

 

Emily Merrell  07:24

yeah, I like that. I mean, one of the things that I’ve always found really funny is I love traveling alone. And I love traveling alone so much, in fact, that like going so for example, when, when I lived in New York City, and I would be on a girls trip, and we’d all be going to the same place. Let’s say we’re going to Columbia for a girls trip. I would not want to share a car, or, like, go out of my way to pick you up, because I want to just go on my own cadence, in my own path, and go through security and not have to wait for you. And, like, even my my girlfriend and I, when we travel, we would buy seats. We both love window seats, so we’d both buy window seats, but like, behind each other. We didn’t care about talking on the plane like we want to just do our routine and read our book and ignore each other until we get to the destination.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  08:15

Yeah, I love that. I’m very picky about who I travel with, because I’ve traveled along too, and I enjoy it so like, that sounds awesome. Yeah, I would totally be done with that.

 

Emily Merrell  08:29

I saw this on Instagram the other day, and I was like, oh, I need to post this too. But my husband doesn’t have TSA Pre check because he’s Canadian, and I do, and I just got my global entry, and he’s still waiting for his interview. So is our son, which is annoying that we all need to have one, including a two year old. And I will leave him at security. I will not go through the peasant line, as I like to call it, because I have earned the right to keep my shoes on, and so I will take our child and I will meet him at the gate. And what’s funny, we once had a miscommunication where he was getting the stroller after a layover from Mexico. So we were going, it was like, Mexico to Texas, Texas back to Denver, and I was like, I’ll just meet him at the gate for our next flight, and he was getting the stroller and was waiting for me. He had to go through customs. I didn’t know we had to do customs alone, without a baby and just a stroller. And the TSA guy was like, Where’s your wife? And he’s like, great question,

 

09:38

chillin. I was like,

 

Emily Merrell  09:41

This is the moment he’s gonna divorce me, because I’m so like, think for myself while traveling, which is blessing or curse? Yeah, yeah.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  09:51

I think luckily for my husband, we haven’t had that situation because I, like, pushed him to get all the, like, clear and rechecked before we ended up. Of, like, really traveling where that, you know, would have made a difference, but I’ve definitely done that to co workers that I used to travel with. And, like, I remember I had a I had a lot of points for an airline. Was like, I think me and my coworker have, like, aisle seats next to each other. And then I was like, oh, there’s an option to upgrade to first class. I’m taking it. Yeah,

 

Emily Merrell  10:27

yeah, opportunistic on that, which I feel like is a good segue into finance, you know, keeping money you’re married, like keeping money separate versus together. I feel like we’ve had this conversation before, but it’s fascinating talking about money with couples, because there’s especially and I’m sure you experience this too as a coach, but I’ve had to come to me and are like, yep, pay in full. No problem. Here’s my credit card. And then I’ve had clients who are like, well, let me talk to my husband. We have to see if financially, this makes sense for our family. Yeah. So there’s which I’m always like, Isn’t this your business? Like, why is this a family conversation? But anywho point being is everyone has, like, a different relationship with money. So can you tell us your relationship with money and what drew you to becoming a financial coach?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  11:19

Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up not having much, like, there were times when we were on food stamps. I was wearing hand me downs sometimes. I mean, I definitely would, like, have a roof over my head, and, like, had stuff to eat, but there was a lot of, like, strife and stress around money. And sometimes, like, how do we make ends meet? I had friends that I saw like, having experiences and getting things that like I really couldn’t. And I went to college and went to school with a lot of like, kids that were from very well off families. And I was working multiple jobs and putting myself through college. I remember stressing out one time going out to dinner with some girlfriends, and I don’t know, I think we were like celebrating some holiday, and I was like trying to find the cheapest thing on the menu. And like, the cheapest thing I could find at the time was like a $5 tiny, little green salad, and that’s all I got in water. And I just remember being so determined that, like, I was going to not feel that anymore and really, like, just put my feet to the ground and, like, build my career and figure out how to, like, grow my money so that I could be comfortable and not like, have to necessarily look at all the prices on things and stress out about stuff like that. So, yeah, I did what I should do, I guess, is you go to college, you go into a job, you climb the corporate ladder. And during that time, I also paid off my debt in my 20s, because I was pretty adamant that I was going to be debt free. I bought my first home. But like, I made a lot of mistakes too. Like, I was afraid to I had times where I was afraid to invest, or, like, save in retirement, because I was like, I might lose all my money. Because it was a novelty to me to get that first paycheck. It was like, a lot of money. I was like, Oh, my God. So I either, like, spent all of it, or I would, like, hoard it and save it, but not really, like, invest it or put it away for retirement. And then I started, like, just learning more about that, and like, the benefits of paying yourself first and prioritizing your goals and long term saving for retirement, whatever that looks like to you, teaching myself about investing. And then fast forward, I was very unhappy in my career. I had kind of done everything, climbed the corporate ladder, was making good money, but I just like, I’m just not happy. I don’t know what else I want to do, but I know it’s not this. And I started working with a Career Coach. And this was like, after probably a few years of just kind of going back and forth, of like, I know I want to do something else. I don’t know what it is, and then I finally was like, Maybe I should get somebody to help me, because I you probably need that push a little bit. So I started working with a career coach. Kind of played around with some different careers that weren’t really like, for example, I was very into, I’m very into, like, going to wineries and stuff. So I was like, maybe I can work for a winery or, like, so I explored some of that stuff, and it wasn’t really, like, resonated with me. And then I had a really great conversation with her, and somehow it came up in our conversation that I’m always reading about and listening to, like finance podcast and books, and it’s something that I’m very interested in. I even like would help family and friends with it. And. In some pieces of my old job, that was something that I really enjoyed, was the financial part. So she was like, why don’t you do that? It sounds like it’s something you’re you really like, and it just kind of comes naturally to you, you know, like, not everybody thinks about it the way you’re telling me you think about it. And I was like, Oh, okay. So yeah, I started working on that while working my other job, and then I actually got laid off at my last role, and took that as a sign to just jump all in. And one of the things that even pushed me harder was I was at a point where, when I did get laid off financially, I was in a good space to take time if I needed to, like, I didn’t have to rush into finding the next role or figuring out how I was going to cover my expenses. I kind of already had a plan in place that covered me, because I knew at some point that I was going to change. And I was like, if I can just help other women, like feel this, where if something happens, they’re okay, and they can take the space that they need and make their next decision based on what makes them happy and what feels aligned for them like that would be amazing. I want more women to feel like this and more often to feel like that as soon as possible, when you’re they’re younger, and maybe, like, share some of the mistakes I made. So yeah, that’s how I got into financial coaching.

 

Emily Merrell  16:27

I love that you are motivated by, like, your own childhood experience and your familiar experience, to not be that person who orders the $5 side salad on the menu but is able to fully show up for the meal that you’re at or sharing that experience. And there was a piece of advice, I’m blanking and butcher her last name, but mayoko, my God. Mayoco, what’s your last name? Ah, we did a money event with her back when I first started my business where I felt very, very God strapped. I guess is the best word. Like, everything was so expensive, and she said something, and this is reminds me of what you just said about, like, showing up to the friend’s dinner. She’s like, when you show up to be at a friend’s dinner, or, like, commit to a dinner, spend that money like you mean it. But then the times that you can’t go to dinners or whatnot, like Make, make intentional decisions when you show up and when you can, especially when you are at the beginning stage of saving money. So I feel like, you know the old version of you, if they saw the version of you now leaving your friend behind to go travel first class, you know? Like, I think, I think you’ve, you’ve evolved a lot in your way that you show up for yourself. Yeah,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  17:45

it’s funny that you say that too. I literally have a note on my desk that says, What would 19 year old Liz or Elizabeth say? And think about where you are now. Because I, like, unlike everybody else, like, I have those days when I’m like, oh, you know, this is hard, or like, maybe I’m not doing enough, or whatever. And I feel like a lot of us think like that, but I always one of the things that I’ve learned is just arming yourself with tools to question those thoughts and taking a moment to look back and appreciate and be thankful for you and how far you’ve gotten yourself. So yeah, I leave that as a reminder to myself a lot, because you’re right. It’s like, if I was 19 year old Elizabeth and looking at myself now like, she’d be like, Yeah,

 

Emily Merrell  18:33

of course. Is when you go to dinner and, like, you get the $5 salad, and then someone gets the lobster and the steak, and then you share it, you split the bill, like that makes me want to throw something sharp at someone’s face, because you’re like, come on, read the room. I’m trying to get I’m trying to save money. I’m drinking water and a salad, and you’re having no consideration, and you had seven drinks and a lobster tail.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  18:58

Yeah, you know, that’s another thing I work with women a lot, is like setting boundaries and asking for what you deserve. And that’s a great example, because it’s totally okay if you go out to dinner and say, Let’s split the check, or, you know, let’s make this fair. And I even had a great experiences late the other day, I went out to dinner with some new friends, and one of the women was like, you know, she’s vegan, she didn’t really have much because there wasn’t much at the restaurant for her, so she had a lot less than everybody else, kind of like, shared. And she was like, I’m so sorry. Like, can we just split the chat because I didn’t have as much? And I was like, Don’t say sorry, and thank you for asking. And I was like, Yes, that’s what we need to do more of, is just not be afraid. I think a lot of us feel like we’re gonna be imposing or we don’t want to cause any trouble, but

 

Emily Merrell  19:50

yeah, I like that example, and I also say I love always trying to be aware of those people, too. And. Think that we can advocate and be like, hey, so and so’s pregnant, and, like, she didn’t drink, and I had two cocktails. You had two cocktails. Why don’t we get the tip? Why don’t we? You don’t have to pay tip or something, you know, something like that, and or, like, just Venmo us, we’ll, we’ll pay for it, and you just Venmo us, or something like that, like, where you at least throw that bone out there, that consideration out there. And I’ve been on the receiving end of that, and it just goes so far in the way that you feel seen and like paid attention to, yeah, when you’re doing dry January and everyone’s loaded, yeah,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  20:36

absolutely. I love that too. Is like, taking care of each other. You know. Side note, I found this app called tab, where, if you go out, you can like, scan the receipt, and then you just assign the items to each person, and it’ll like, calculate your part and your part of the tip. And it’s awesome. Love that

 

Emily Merrell  20:58

I feel like in the Midwest, they do a good job of being like, do you want separate checks? And if you’ve asked for a separate check in LA or New York, I think they like row throw something at you, even splitting the bill, they’re like, big eye rolls sometimes, still,

 

21:15

yeah,

 

Emily Merrell  21:16

I do. You know what actually bothers me, and this is, I’m curious your thought on this, but I hate when the one person has cash and they’re like, I’m going to put cash in and then you all pay on that, and I’m just like, you just you just confused the heck out of me, because we were just splitting it equally between four. And now is that the tip included in the cash that you’re giving or, how does this work? And that always upsets you about,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  21:46

like, you make it extra complicated, or like, I don’t want to do math right now. Um, honestly, I don’t mind that, because I’m usually the person who’s like, Okay, I’ll just, just give me your cash, and I’ll put your part on my card, and then, like, I’ll, I’ll usually calculate so. But I understand that too, because I’ve been in situations where, like, a couple people do that, and then one person is like, I have no idea what’s going on, and that’s explain it to the waiter. And, yeah,

 

Emily Merrell  22:10

I’m like, just make it, keep it simple, stupid in terms of things, let’s talk about best practices. Like, let’s going back to 19 year old. Liz, you are, you know, paying your way through college, working multiple jobs, you then get this fancy job, you become financially stable, you pay off your debt in your 20s, and you buy a house. How the heck did you do all of this? And was this and where did this happen?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  22:37

Yeah, so I mentioned in college, I worked a lot of jobs. So that was one thing I knew, because I knew that I wanted to pay off my student loans as soon as possible getting out of college. So actually saved money towards that. The other thing that I avoided was signing up for all the credit cards, I feel like so many people were doing, because, you know, you don’t, you don’t learn about money. Nobody tells you that. Nobody talks to you about debt and compound interest and like how that piles up. So I never signed up for any credit cards, and I think I had one, and it had like, $100 limit, and I never used it. Or if I did use it, it was I paid it off right away.

 

23:21

Yeah, you’re scared of it, yeah. And then

 

Elizabeth Michelle  23:25

the other thing, I got married. My first marriage, I got married young. I was, like, 23 I didn’t pay for a wedding because that wasn’t important to me. So I wanted to, like, pay off my debt and then put money towards my first house, and that’s what I prioritized. So when I first got my job, like I lived below my means, I got, like, the cheapest apartment I could get, prioritized paying off my debt and building up my savings, and then probably, like, a couple years later, I was able to buy my first home. And

 

Emily Merrell  24:03

I want to pause you there, because I feel like that recognition and that like self awareness at a young age is so big you were like, no wedding. I don’t need a wedding. I’m going to live below my means. How did you how did you not get caught up in like the thrill of being a 20 something year old who is making money and not going away on a trip or spending it on dinners with friends. I

 

Elizabeth Michelle  24:31

think initially, part of it was just I was still scared I had a paycheck, and I was like, Oh my God. Like, now I have money, and I don’t want to lose it, so I have kind of, like a little phase where I was like, I just gonna hoard it and make sure that, like, I have it, um, but I’ll be honest, like I went through that, and I was like, save, save, save, pay off debt. And then when I had the debt off my plate, and I got the home, and I was like, okay, I can pay. A mortgage. I did have a little phase where I was like, now I’m going to go on trips and, like, buy all this stuff. So I have to, I had to kind of figure out balance in my 20s, because I went from like, Okay, I’m getting a paycheck. I’m going to, like, hoard everything because I don’t want to lose it, to like, Okay. I’m like, okay, I can kind of buy some stuff. And now I’m going to, like, buy everything. And I think there weren’t even a couple years where I wasn’t saving because I was just like, you know, covering my necessities, buying clothes and going on trips or whatever I was purchasing. So I did have to figure out a balance

 

Emily Merrell  25:33

where, where was this happening, that you bought a where you bought your house and were able to do all the savings

 

Elizabeth Michelle  25:42

that was in my early 20s.

 

25:43

But like, was it,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  25:44

LA, or was it? Oh, so, yeah, I went to college in New York, and then I had my first job in Connecticut, and I was saving then, and then I ended up moving to North Carolina, and that’s where I bought my first home that was probably in the span of, like, maybe, like, four years, four or five years.

 

Emily Merrell  26:10

And so it’s, it’s interesting that you, like, went to New York and Connecticut and whatnot, where you think of probably your peers who went to school with you. Like, there was more of a vision of living in New York City and living in Soho, or, you know, whatever the stereotype things were, and you had this mature head on your body where you were. You got married and you moved to North Carolina. And so what did you bought this house? Can I ask? Like, how much was the house when you bought it?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  26:39

Yeah, it was $250,000

 

Emily Merrell  26:43

okay, and so teachable moment here. So how much did you put down for a $250,000 house? Honestly,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  26:51

the one thing that I had a benefit of is like my first husband at the time, could get the VA loan. So I think we may have only had to cover a closing cost, which was like a couple $1,000 and so I had, like, plenty in savings to cover that. Um, yeah, I think I might have had to maybe save for another year if I had to do like more, like a 5% or something like that, depending on the loans. So that’s incredible.

 

Emily Merrell  27:21

So like, taking advantage of a VA loan and taking advantage of, like, a low, an approachable house price with only having to cover the closing costs. How did you take that mortgage or that house to build wealth? Yeah, so I did it, or did you,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  27:44

you know that house ended up not being something that I made any money off of, honestly, because I bought it at the top of, like, right when that 2008 crash hit. So it actually depreciated quite a lot. It got down to, like, the high hundreds, I believe, as far as the worst. So when I ended up selling it, like 10 ish, years later, maybe a little less than that, I probably sold it for what I bought it for. So the house didn’t really contribute to the wealth growth at all. But what I did do is I realized I couldn’t just because I was paying my mortgage, and I kind of was in that phase where I was, like, spending more of my money than I was saving it. And I started like, I was contributing to, like, a 401, k, because my employer had me, like, sign up for it, but I wasn’t investing it. I didn’t really know what to do with it. I was kind of starting saying, okay, like, I know I want to make more money. I know at some point, like, I gotta think about retirements. I also want to have savings. Because owning a house, you know, things happen, and things did happen when I was in the house. Like I did replace AC and stuff like that. These are all like things that were not familiar to me. But I was like, okay, so I know I have to have savings. So I started building up my savings again and doing that first, like, setting up automatic deposits so that I knew that part of my paycheck was always going into a savings. And then I started learning about investing and, like, how you do that in your 401, K, and I just started, like, kind of playing around with that a little bit. And that’s really how I started growing wealth is always making sure I had savings at least three months for covering my necessity expenses and maybe a little extra when I had the house, just in case something happened. And then and learning to invest my retirement accounts. And just like, making sure I was putting money away first. So really, like following that pay yourself first, and then anything that was left over, I did what I wanted to do because I still wanted to enjoy my life. And then if I had a goal, like, I think I went on my first international trip, I saved for that, like, make sure I wasn’t putting it on the credit card, or, like, going into. That to do things like that,

 

Emily Merrell  30:01

yeah? So you actually could appreciate, appreciate your trip, versus, like, feel that anxiety of coming home to a very, very large bill.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  30:11

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

 

Emily Merrell  30:14

So it sounds like you then you enrolled in a credit card where you did finally, down the line, open a credit card that worked for you. Do you? Do you have any suggestions for people who are scared of getting into debt or opening a credit card, and how they can tackle that mindfully?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  30:34

Yeah. I mean, I think credit cards are great because I help you build your credit. The biggest piece of advice, I would say, is, like, always, pay down, pay off your balance every month. Because the trouble that you get into with a credit card is they have such high interest rates. So if you carry a balance, that interest just compounds. And so like every month, your principal grows, which is your beginning balance, and then the interest gets charged on top of that, so it can snowball. So if you can be responsible with your money, and just like, it’s totally okay to use credit cards, I love credit cards. I have a lot of them because I leverage them for travel, but always just pay your balance off, your statement balance off every month, so you’re not getting charged interest, because you don’t get charged any interest on a credit card if you pay your statement off every month, it’s just interest to cruise when you don’t pay it off.

 

Emily Merrell  31:27

And I think I’ve This is a question that comes up a lot with with finance, is if you have a balance on your credit card, but you also want to be building your savings, but you also want to pay off your student loan? What comes first?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  31:43

Yeah, pet has such a great question. So in my strong opinion, I think savings comes first. And what I mean by that is your emergency savings. I like to call it an opportunity fund, because sometimes, like emergency sounds like you’re expecting an emergency, yeah, but really like having that three to six months of just your necessity expenses, so like your mortgage and rent, your utilities, like those things that you need to live having that set aside in a high yield savings account first. And if you’re like an entrepreneur or a contractor, you might want to err on the side of six to 12 months. I would prioritize that first, because at least then you know, if like anything were to come up, if you were like, you lose a job, or some unexpected expense comes up, like a medical issue or something, you at least have that set aside so you’re taken care of. And then I would start tackling your debt. So for debt, credit cards, personal loan student, you always want to pay your minimum balance on everything, and then I usually like to either tackle the highest interest rate first, and part of start putting extra towards that, and then go from like highest interest rate to lowest. There is another rule of thumb that you could also follow, which is just to pay off your like, smallest balance first, because psychologically it feels good to start like taking that off your plate. I personally like the highest interest rate, because that’s the one that snowballs the fastest.

 

Emily Merrell  33:12

Totally. I may have heard stories about student debt where people, like, maybe took $20,000 out for college and now they owe like, $80,000 or something. Yeah,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  33:20

yeah. It can be crazy, yeah. And usually credit cards are the ones that have the highest interest rates, so usually it would tackle those first after you have your emergency savings.

 

Emily Merrell  33:32

What are your thoughts on transferring balances to low interest credit cards?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  33:39

Yeah, I think you just have to be careful about any kind of loan consolidation or transferring balances, because there’s always, I’m a big believer in like, reading your contracts and understanding what the terms are and the fees, because sometimes I like transfer fees that they don’t really come out right and tell you, but it’s in The paperwork. There might be term limits. So it’s really just important to understand the fees and the limits and that you’re not just signing up for something that might end up being a bigger debt. Yeah, I

 

Emily Merrell  34:12

think that’s a really good point where it’s like, you don’t want to get bamboozled into the into that trap of moving it around, and then you’re kind of like leaving the snail trail of horrible, horrible debt.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  34:23

Yeah, the only thing I would say is, like, I don’t see a lot of people do this, but it can work. Is calling your companies to negotiate a lower interest rate, or, um, you know, negotiating a term on your balance, like, if you pay it off in a certain time, maybe they can reduce your interest rate. So it’s always good to, like, Call and ask. It doesn’t hurt to ask. And medical bills, a lot of times, you can negotiate some of those down, or for them to just be forgiven if you pay a certain amount, and all it takes is time on the phone to ask.

 

Emily Merrell  35:00

Like, it’s so funny. You say that. I mean, this isn’t funny, but kind of funny. My stepdad passed away. My dad’s stepdad passed away a few years ago, and after he passed away, my mom got a bill, like, a pretty significant bill, for his medical care at the hospital. She’s like, I closed his estate. Like, this $5,000 bill was haunting her. She was like, see this bill, then the doctors are not going to get paid, and poor doctors in San Francisco are going to be go poor. And I talked to so many friends who work in insurance, and they’re like, you don’t have to pay the bill. Like it’s his estate, his name, you don’t have to pay the bill. And she just felt this, like terrible guilt for not paying this, like, random bill. He had two types of insurance. You know, they could deal with it, but there’s so many to your point, like, there it’s, it’s flexible, and I’m not saying don’t pay your hospital bills, but in that particular situation, it definitely was something that they were like, trying for more money?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  36:01

Yeah, a lot of times there are options, but you never know unless you know. And

 

Emily Merrell  36:07

same with rent too. I remember being in New York and starting my company, and my rent increased, and I talked to the guy, and I told him I was starting my own business, and was asking if it could be less. And he was like, Yeah, sure, no problem. It’s like, yeah, he could have said no, but I asked I shot my shot. Yeah, that’s true,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  36:29

right? Um, yeah, I’ve, I’ve done, like, similar things too, or, like, I remember one place I rented, it was horrible. It was like, rats and all kinds of stuff like so and there’s so much stuff that needed to be fixed, and so I basically had to, like, move into a place I didn’t even have a working bathroom, oh, my god, straight and buy a muffin at the gas station so they would let me use my bathroom their bathroom. And I remember negotiating with the landlord to, like, not pay rent for that time until all that stuff was fixed, and he would have, like, totally been fine charging me rent without all that stuff working if I hadn’t asked.

 

Emily Merrell  37:09

So this is your advice. You know, this is a teachable moment for everyone that advocate for yourself. Ask questions, ask, you know, call your credit card company. There’s no harm in asking or in trying to renegotiate an interest rate or a balance or so on. Oh, I love that. Elizabeth, how can people learn more about working with you and like, what type of people do you like to work with? Yeah, so

 

Elizabeth Michelle  37:37

I focus working one on one with women. So really, any woman that’s like, starting her career, in her career and she’s making money, but maybe, like, not sure, like where to start first, or like how to maximize it, maybe she has a goal to, like, gain some financial freedom later, or have a comfortable retirement. So, yeah, I help all women really get their arms around their money, feel more confident, and also ask for what they deserve and really build the life that they want. I’m mostly on Instagram. That’s the best way to find me. It’s Elizabeth underscore M Shell, so it’s Michelle without the eye,

 

Emily Merrell  38:24

Michelle, I feel like you’re someone that I wish as a college senior we all had been gifted. Seriously like, what an incredible gift, even for those listening and thinking about like someone graduating high school or college, to have a session with Elizabeth, and to be able to to dream, but also to be strategic. And, you know, hearing your story, I’m like, kicking young Emily for I wanted to live in the West Village, and I wanted to live like there were certain things that I wanted, and I was prioritizing, like, the there and now, which was amazing, but not the, like, long term vision of of savings and whatnot. So, yeah, it’s like, hindsight. It’s 2020, but hindsight would have left me richer if I’d, like, lived in Brooklyn and shared a room with someone or, you know, like, I wish there was, there was a little I was scrappy as AF in certain degrees. But then there were moments that I definitely lived outside of my means and said yes. Same Yes, was, was definitely got me yeah

 

Elizabeth Michelle  39:32

and same here, like there, like I said I didn’t invest right away, and I kick myself because, like, investing time is your friend. Invest like, it is totally feasible to be a millionaire, you don’t have to do all these, like, fancy Quick, get rich quick, and like, do like, 10 different side hustles or anything like that. But it’s about like paying yourself first and getting in as soon as possible. I see all these instruments.

 

Emily Merrell  39:59

Hacks where it’s like, start paying your child and then create a savings account and then this, and then that. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is such a good idea, but also feels wildly overwhelming to do. But it’s like, how to make your child a millionaire by the time they turn 25 I’m like, first off, does my kid need to be a millionaire by 25 question number one And question number two is, Should I do this?

 

40:29

Should I is that? Is

 

Emily Merrell  40:31

that priority? So that’ll be our next 15 minute chat that we have. Yes,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  40:36

I have all kinds of thoughts on that.

 

Emily Merrell  40:41

I don’t know what kind of kid do I want to be to have as like a 25 year old millionaire, unless he built it himself well. So Elizabeth, before we leave, I have some fast questions for you today. Yes, are you ready?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  40:55

I’m ready. Okay,

 

Emily Merrell  40:56

my first question is, tell us an unknown fun fact about Elizabeth.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  41:01

Okay, so I have lived all over the United States since I was a child, and I just met my 10 year anniversary living in California, and California has been the longest, the longest I lived anywhere,

 

Emily Merrell  41:18

10 years in California. And you’re not from California?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  41:21

No, I’m not. My dad’s from California, but I’m not from California. I always say I’m not from anywhere. I was born in Montana. My dad was in the military, and I we probably moved to places every few years. Yeah, that must

 

Emily Merrell  41:36

be really frustrating. When people ask you, where are you from? And you’re like,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  41:42

I kind of like it actually. I’m like, I’m not from anywhere. I’m just, you know, I’m from where I am right now. Like, okay, I usually get that reaction like, Okay, love it.

 

Emily Merrell  41:54

When I was 12, I went to summer camp, and I had moved from Florida to Connecticut, but in that summer, I was in the summer camp in Wyoming, and people are like, where are you from? And I’m like, Well, I live in Connecticut for like, last week, but I’m from Florida, but I don’t know, like, I’d burst into tears because I was like, like, what defines like where I’m from? Is it where I like my house is now, or where I was. I was 12 and emotional. So there we go.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  42:28

I feel like home is where the heart is. Yeah, yeah.

 

Emily Merrell  42:31

Madeline Fortman, I love it. Um, okay, who would be a dream person for you to meet or to connect with that are alive?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  42:39

Oh my gosh, that one I’m gonna having a hard time thinking about. I don’t know, you know what. It sounds corny, but like, maybe just connecting with my younger self, like, give her a hug and tell her everything’s gonna be okay. I love that.

 

Emily Merrell  42:58

And be like, buy her a drink and be like, lighten up. It’s gonna work out. Yeah,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  43:02

definitely Lighten up, for sure.

 

Emily Merrell  43:07

I feel like I think we would have been friends. I was a very serious like youth, and then I feel like I’m regressing and embodying more of that childlike spirit as I get older.

 

Elizabeth Michelle  43:17

That’s a good thing, though. Don’t use the childlike spirit. Yeah,

 

Emily Merrell  43:21

exactly. Oh, wow, when I open things. Oh, wow. Um, okay, What show are you watching currently? Okay,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  43:28

so I really like selling sunset. I love all the, like, fancy real estate and, like the dramas entertaining too. But I just love, like, all the walkthroughs they do of the houses, yeah, I

 

Emily Merrell  43:41

guess so I’m looking at real estate. I’m like, it’s like, foreign in a weird way. I know that sounds inappropriate, but like, just like, I’m like, whole

 

Elizabeth Michelle  43:51

body, get it? Because I feel the same way, yeah, oh, my God, yes.

 

Emily Merrell  43:55

Like, you, like, feel it in your belly. Like, the potential that could be you’re like, I lived here, like, what would I be? Like, what car would I drive? Who would I be? You know, like, you can put yourself forward, and then you live there and you’re like, that’s just a house. Never mind

 

Elizabeth Michelle  44:11

what, what book are you currently reading? Or have you read recently? So I read that A Court of Thorns and Roses series. I’m getting into the next series, which is like, Crescent City or something like that. So I started, I’m just, I’m like, reading it slowly, because I feel like I’m like, in like, kind of a rut with my pleasure reading. Yeah. So I really like Sarah J Maas though. So fun.

 

Emily Merrell  44:39

I I listened to half of them on graphic audio, which is really fun, and then, like, would read them another moment, so I could always be, like, moving forward in the series. But have you done fourth wing and iron flame yet, too?

 

Elizabeth Michelle  44:55

No, not yet. They’re on my list.

 

Emily Merrell  44:58

Yeah, I’d say go graduate. Question you have to it’s a progression, and it’s, it’s like similar, but different, dragons versus fairies. And I love having this conversation in front of men who are like, What are you talking about? Yeah. But

 

Elizabeth Michelle  45:12

then when they start reading it, they all secretly get into it too,

 

Emily Merrell  45:17

totally. And I’ve seen it happen in real life. What is your favorite emoji? The wine emoji. I want to talk to you offline about wine. That’s my next question. And then my last question for you is, what permission Do you want to give our listeners today,

 

Elizabeth Michelle  45:33

I love this question. I actually have two things. One is, enjoy your life like money doesn’t have to be about deprivation. It’s really like, I think what Emily said earlier, just strategy and paying yourself first, but don’t make it feel like you can also enjoy your hard earned money. And then the other thing is, like, ask for what you deserve, and even go higher than what you think you deserve, whether that’s like salary negotiation or the rate you’re charging like don’t underestimate your

 

Emily Merrell  46:03

worth. Amen, mic drop moment. Well, Elizabeth, thank you so much for sharing your story, your tips, your learnings, all of all of it with us today. I so appreciate having you as our guest. Thank you so much for having me and listeners. If you liked today’s episode, go over and follow Elizabeth, Michelle with no vowels and check her share with friends, and we’ll see you the next time on the second degree. Have a great day, everyone.